'real-time' onset detection example

You would think, but whenever I’m trying to make my patches leaner, some of the first things to go, or get trimmed down (due to being flagged by the “Show CPU Usage” thing in Max) are the snapshot~s. And I normally do something like snapshot~ 20.

Here it is using about a third of a 2in 2out multiconvolve~ (and 40x what noise~ costs):

I’m wondering if I should report that small section of patch as a ‘bug’, since at the very least, you would think it would be consistent in what it did, but edge~ fails to report sometimes (on top of the slop).

your patch is a fallacy, my friend - you are updating the GUI under snapshot so I wonder if that is what the problem lies - you get a new value every ms…

try something like a sah~ noise every 20ms with a change after lie in your patch (which would be your highest density of attacks) and then the gui and see how it sweats. If still a lot, then we need to report it indeed!

The results are more or less the same (without any UI object). I didn’t think that UI (and Max-related processes) were reported in the CPU usage either way.

average audio CPU usage was 3.97%
times~: 0.42% of total CPU
times~: 0.66% of total CPU
noise~: 0.97% of total CPU
ezdac~: 1.20% of total CPU
sfplay~: 5.84% of total CPU
snapshot~: 17.84% of total CPU
multiconvolve~: 71.04% of total CPU

I thought that the snapshot~ 1 process in and of itself is expensive regardless of what’s above/below it. I don’t think it’s a bug or anything, I just thought that was how it worked.

1 Like

have you tried with new audio signal and change after? I’m curious now… if you don’t plan to test it, let me know and I’ll bundle a quick patch

Unless I misunderstood you, it makes no difference:

woaaaaaa this is expensive! put the patch here so I can check in Max7 (although I never used the CPU % feature so I don’t know if it exists)

Expensive indeed. I try to keep the snapshot~s in my patches to a minimum, and when possible, bang them on request.

Yeah, the Show CPU Usage thing (inside the View menu) doesn’t seem to be very popular. I find it quite useful, though it doesn’t report Max/UI CPU usage.

Here’s the patch. It’s just pulled from the multiconvolve~ help file (as I wanted something “expensive”) with the bits on the side.


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
1645.3oc2Zs0aaaCE9YmeED5osAGCwa5ReXXauUf8vP2isEAzxz1JSVzSjJM
oEM+1KuH4H23KxxxxcCAQVhjhGd9NGdtQ8kaF4MU7HW5AdC38fQi9xMiFYax
zvnpmG4sh8XRFSZGlWN+Sho26M10kh+nx17sOCf0MJJUYbk5o0b2D6ISWjyx
7.erZ.oyruiddtE6W+V4kqRy0umkLnpFWyTIKSyWbWAOQ4lMX.ch+X.LLXBc
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1ItLribYbf4JAObL45kLon3Y.0uSLJtiLJEYtFDObLpLmsVtTnNzly4YBlZ2
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u8X8zvxWravK3T.O34.dQVG1HH4HnG5pqPENXJT9VKkWKEJ31JTvdQgJdvTn
PQVX6GeEpWhy3RqPQInqmEJ31Vnf8iEJJbnTnnAw+GwBEFMTJTjHx0yBEbaK
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FLAD4JjIzpqfCu.kTvXDbJq3f612dmdCDfbpUHAFF1fgPgzivQcwAO+yyXIa
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aImJJlwKZlQ4dxmsA+RZShos1C.xU0PmwNjFRvjHJzOjnu2T0jflF9LQEsIG
hk7L8JXgbx8Rucq3T058R8vJMNAp9vU9N8.Omm2dxuhyOKBnD.8Zwd+A8sfd
MBe4q2R.w5UIHvlQNjVg9Chi2WCPvSEfhFL.x2dl1WC.BdNZPP3PgPTB9ZoB
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48a9ZVzn3ts90VBY9X0NJgpWMmGkBaAkpWNmGkvsgRg8.kZC3g5CvKrkpCmK
cfsQanmnC7Hzg1GzoM6if8AgnsgPA8AkZit.rW1G0FoDrOLBAGHojolhGmP8
wF1VYBhzGDpMrj4LvOaJQaKKctpCz1rok1G5CwsRL0KThzMJ4hjfsd8C7BY0
nsDQGp08tS1KZr8wzbwKoB5UveHsd71555wJzQ3nzg2TV3B.5w.Wtf1RtVjq
y3zkttl8zjzFFmIXI4ZVRUEY0Q6cyWu4a5dGPL.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

this makes it pretty orange indeed…


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
400.3ocyT9saCBBEF+Z8ofv0tkh+saYuIKKKTk0RiEL.1YSS8YexAMqaqwX6
ZS5MhmONb93Gdj89d3ExFlFidF8JxyauumGHYE75i8vanM4kTMjFVv9TtXMN
vMkg0X.YsfVoWIMsHxvbh5MbQIy.qKrWrhZxWwEKeWwxMNeIIgONK.ElBCYo
PP26n25WCu.rny1GleTwk0lgpS5UcRlcULWoweTJoc1LTIsYWILEFaEN36ae
D7+PWH4ZV6IolLB0gQVPIIY1g3QoN6LoVyWJnk2Xr0zUsW5m5PhcHJaLnSuG
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PtvEFAgJ1V9P9IfBU00ya5Z3qUttulT2UW3MxBlRTygtXeqyG7+BEKl6fA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

how do you get the printout? I get the colours…

When you turn it back off, it then prints everything out to the Max window.

The display is a bit confusing as it shows the total CPU usage at the top of the printout, then everything below is as a % of that total.

1 Like

So yeah, that is my hesitation to use snapshot~ 1 in the patch.

I understand. but here is a good example of why I don’t - @weefuzzy and/or @a.harker will come to the rescue here I hope. It might be a gui updating issue… but I would expect not to be able to stop on a difference…


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
783.3ocyX1saaBCEG+ZxSAhqShv1fAl1axzzjahaBcDCB6zkpplm8gOFx5VA
pIDx3FPXb7e9c9xGmWW338P9Itzy8Ktey0w40ENNvP5Abpe1w6.6zlLlDll2
AtTx1w8VZdmheRAiiaFQb7PpHiqfoiqGrfo1rOUr6Gk7MJib3vj09KcCo5q3
j0gUWwq8c+d8OIcKrt4O7zJbv6V77iplUG0r5kbIWnXpzbQWJ3We4x5aVG0K
Ebyr87t7Jo5kLXTOO8.usXg9xxQZg7GrEBGZsEhzuEZxfUv+Uk9ef0B1Ocez
8wgRLJLRyZ.EA2H.3cgLZdg7l8LwNdUHVqPi5CZrlSBIVei1Oz9sCMoSnW55
kJTM2l3P7Un0zHJlD07lrTAeS9Qg58NdqiFHAqwg5D.H4MDtRBa2xfRlWgCq
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LLkBLaVzI9ACL+PltSvxlXvkBVgbet57faFnp1Pnt7G3yozdQmLGKMrpp1.M
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2Vo8+nznoWZcSK2dpisAZ+agmMxFFSLLN8wP5iG1l0bbNR8oo9boI2ByoM49
MeNiRI5.P51ZMsR4f1Udj0BrPYxcx1F2Nf3QIrMIiza.fAVpyXy4sIkO3C7X
1pmUT7LuTVOYPhpVbdJGLyQKgGSElGg+BUuR9yoMyODFgUV0GippIliklNJN
QMci5cHuxgINlVmNTo7aK9s2ibKJ
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
1 Like

Yup, that’s a good demo of the problem.

What really confuses me is even if the Max slop makes the bang coming out of edge~ late, that it should still report the right value… just later. But it seems to miss it altogether (sometimes).

ok after being educated by @weefuzzy I understand 2 things:

  • snapshop~ is expensive indeed and sample and holds the first value of the signal vector (check the helpfile for the offset value)

  • without delay~ we might have a conflict in the bang’d version of snapshot~ : it is possible that the change is not at the begining of the vector, and therefore we are one value late.

The following patch is consistent, with bleeps when the error occures, but that is good enough for now I think.


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
761.3oc2X91iaBBGG+w1WEDebOi.JZW16jkkEZKWq2rnQn2ZykyW6S.sa2Vk
QN4zj8fVhHxW9vu+vO8kUAgaqtvDgfOA9BHH3kUAA5tTcDzecP3I5kckTgdX
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zxvaOTm7E7A0Qp9dc0J0eqcD+SLgfdf8W7i7.xnzMJJSIZV2DkNNwnjQQdFf
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0ei1vF1yECiOU2Csoq3HYWkQmaLEScgXJwM7TUmQietn2koS4WW8SjmtmaK
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
1 Like

Cool, I’ll give that a test in the patch.

I tried something like that, but with much smaller delay values (delay~ 20 20), but didn’t get consistent results.

I’ve made a post on the c74 forum too to see if anyone there has a better idea/solution.

Euuurgh!

Here is the correct answer to the homework. We must take the last sample of the vector to be sure that we have the right one which should have been clear from the info from @weefuzzy above.


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
890.3oc2X1saZCCEG+Z3ovxZWRi7mIgo8lLUUY.CjNHIJ1zQUU4YeI1AFcEL
lhSPZ2.JmX33e9+4b7w9sgCfSJ1JUPv2A+DLXvaCGLvXpwvf1mG.WK1NckPY
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x1O9XiEQUcCp55tS2TYalbap8rUv0E0BV9lr1fxZO+9v+f5jo+F
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
2 Likes

Ok, here’s the newly revamped (and fixed thanks to @a.harker and @weefuzzy) version of the onset detection abstraction.

It doesn’t use PAs evil “wall street” version (where each algorithm competes to see who is first/fastest), since that would be more expensive for general purpose use.


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
4392.3oc6cs0biiak9Y2+JPoGRYWkZs3N.2jNUmc2TadHop7PdK8VtnDorYF
IRsjTtaOSM929d..IMoDoDkDjlIaZWsskA3Eb9.N2O.8O8g6lLO6awESP+6n
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3 Likes

I’ve done some more testing after recording some test audio files of press rolls and general fast hits.

It seems like the release time of the fast slide~ is critical to getting a quick response time from the system.

So massaging the numbers around a bunch I ended up with slide~ 5 1103 for the fast envelope and slide~ 2205 2205 for the slow one works pretty well.

Here’s a mockup which does a bunch of testing with click~ and @tremblap’s p sn subpatch too. With an acoustic snare it doesn’t track quite as well, but this is a big improvement for things like rolls.


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1 Like

That’s tracking pretty well! I wonder how it would cope with stuff that doesn’t have such a high crest factor, although maybe this isn’t an issue for what you need it for (but equally, maybe this is why it struggles a bit with the acoustic snare.

Yeah, it’s all a balance.

For (most of) my purpose(s), sounds will have sharp attacks/transients, which simplifies things a bit.

I want to go back and really tune it with acoustic sounds, but wanted to post something that captured rolls a lot better than the previous versions posted.