Impulse responses with NMF

Hello !

In the piece performed the other day, I shortly used decomposed impulse responses with nmf.
What would it mean for you in terms of signal or architectural reverberation ?
Could it be some kind of primitive decomposition of the mesh of a hall ?
Another step into finite elements decomposition ?

In Rhino, there are tools for building meshes then convex hulls. I am looking for a link with one of those processes that would eventually describe what nmf is doing to an IR. IR are all about delays/distances from one sweet central point. There is something to dig there…

Just trying to get an idea of what it means, and if it has a meaning at all.

That’s a fascinating question. Intuitively, it seems perfectly plausible to treat the impulse response at a point in enclosed space as a straightforward additive superposition of the paths taken between surfaces.

But because NMF is unsupervised, there’s nothing guaranteeing that the decomposition would be physically plausible, without coming up with some additional constraints. I’m not sure what form those would take.

Something like finite elements methods, to the very limited extent I understand them, are already starting with a model that is meant to be physically plausible, and these methods offer a tractable way of ‘running’ the model numerically, yes? So, I guess, if one could formulate constraints on NMF that somehow represented the modelling assumptions of some architectural acoustics thingy, then, uh, maybe? :grimacing: #outofmydepth

one idea I just had is to try starting with the DC seed I use in the examples of ‘updating bases’. Imagine if you make a low, mid and high pass DC filter to seed, you might get some sort of separation that you can vaguely have an idea about… this is untested on complex signal, but works for drums and sine waves :wink:

To add, seeding late and early reflections as dictionaries to (miseraby) split your IR’s up! Perhaps something wacky and perverse arises.

In fact, I began to try this in my patch here… but the result was well, crap. Actually, NMF straight on IR’s is pretty good at splitting up earlies and lates and that alone is quite sonically rich without doing much else. It wasn’t for nothing though - this was actually a good chance to experiment with blocking as well as bufcompose.


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2 Likes

Looking forward to play with this later today!

I have updated it to have some more guidance on how the patch works (or doesn’t ;))

1 Like

Interesting idea. Will give it a proper play but also makes me thinking of doing stuff like seeding it with amp-sum-style IRs then feeding it reverb ones etc…

Hello

So I try to get your #4 in there and I don’t get it. There was a typo in the order of the centroid but even that sorted, you expect to take reverb as nmf template? You are also adding 3 ER and 3 LR together (which is like 3 reverb…) What I would do instead is to convolve them separately, like in this version:


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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

The fun bit here is that the early reflections are super ringy but just using the late reflections is quite potent!

What do you want me to clarify?

The process is that spectralshape~ is calculated on both of the decomposed resynthesis buffers of each buffer~ (IR1, IR2, IR3). It then decides crudely which one is the early which is the late by taking the max centroid of the first 2048 samples. It then adds the appropriate buffer to early.sum and late.sum and at a later stage fluid.bufcompose~ copies these buffers into a single multi-channel buffer and multiplies by 0.3 as a way to cheaply average the summed info.

but reversed (that was the error :wink:

Do you get anything good out of it? For me it was huge mush, and the single split IR ER is quite ringy, but using LR that way was kind of fun.

Yeah, as I said the result is kind of crappy and it was perhaps more useful for playing with some threading + bufcompose stuff. Your modification provides better results for sure :wink:

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Meaningful descriptors for IRs could be found using:

  • ‘spat5.ir.analysis’ does an “EDR analysis” (no idea what this is)
  • ‘spat5.ir.infos’ provides onset time, center time, noise level, density and… positions of RTs !!

@a.harker’s objects IRstats are fun to play with

That one is part of the HISSTools Impulse Response Toolbox.

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