Making sense of fluid.ampslice~

[rodrigo.constanzo]

Now that fluid.ampslice~ is up and running (minus the zippering while changing parameters…), I want to try to make sense of it to start using in my patches.

I’ve gone through the (significantly improved!) helpfiles, but I still find it profoundly confusing.

Some kind of visual reference would be super welcome, but beyond that, I’m having a hard time figuring out how the separate envelope followers (and their thresholds) interact. The fact that you can’t scope~ around inside the code also complicates things.

Here’s a patch I mocked up which has what I think the topology is inside fluid.ampslice~, but I’m not sure. I don’t really know or understand how the separate envelopes/thresholds interact nor how to set the settings to get something useful out of it. The zippering while exploring the settings doesn’t help for sure.

(for the sake of simplicity, and my general interest, it’s mainly the two envelope followers and threshes that I’m interested in, not the lookahead/behind stuff)

----------begin_max5_patcher----------
11530.3oc68s2qaibkm+s6OEDZ.Brybsl5cUb63tclrKRFfN6lcR.VrH8.Cd
kntWNVRTCEkc6Dj6m8odPpKIEeTjhut1xnaYYQQw57qN04bpScd72+tWs39v
ew+3Bm+GN+UmW8p+928pWo+H0G7pj+8qVry6WVs06n9qs3zN+8mVbm4J6OsK
7T7V+X80vIe5Au3UOFr+gOD4uJ17aSAKA24PDD0eAwB0egPKAN+GI2i4mI9K
G7M2vhf8wKtyYg9+O+sBh82kLZW76TCofUpuvuc6CgQAwOtS8OtS8xuK7Pf+
Z069KgGB2F9vW9wyWay1SAqW5s6vwsAq7eJyu9ZMEFd++4aEtKNSLQd67i8i
9f+du62pGdfmI+f8oTOT8Y+iu66Tubmkf4d+OKeZoOpX+eQCWK9mcfkivvlP
XpBTkPq6RpM.bojNaQYjGp+Hui9akC6vnmbvcmPY5+BQYMyJcL3g8daKmXwk
RrjNPr67Odz6A+Kn1sgdqu2a+CslPwBph1X.pZxjZwZlxIQT4ymIe38OrRt9
Hx7K.VhAPWF7tReGLyyN41Ps89dHxacf+93rz98OrIX6V8u2GRolElQUIeC8
qv1OdK7KbdjitKyK0dKo2gqfgHL.wk.HPBQcq..Gh.bg.3xwB8uF.wIXBTHD
bDkyp9216TbXVXQwXWx2Z+CFgOHd4egCQRIcQwAg6M+Hz9aAa7iAG0Ln9Qky
EiZlKlPTbwLtEbw2UAmLwsTN4T1nideJ8m3e5+s5GI2v1Yw2qd4e5+q5U+8q
Mehy+Q+gRqjpS93SsdYNTJrVhIXgVfF185jmAVLv5lN3rxn3MiR2NRwXsraH
f1QIa754GRm5MjXBM9pExUL9exO5XxBkju8qV3c3PlO9UYtEEv7eZV9Kt67G
Er27QfyeTj+mBRue14O0KRR+wRh+TjQx1uvHKd9mIbsez9SAmmkzSQICIMRu
WZ9gjMdk4lUyYoWNiNQWCRZLuBAz.qKOCjpjUrMb0G8WmcLuH7f+9f8Gh7OJ
E93cV3Q5kW6uw6z13OrIbe7wf+ldH.QKK85aRFhkdQEQnG++1n.Iqa5W4gnf
0g6UChbSEpON8wIYWz7GpWelXzei8dGJ4lkbFRbohKdTRjmNduWjZlJwZNT5
EiCC2l+Rmuus9ahSt7gf86KfhwgGp9hQAO7XM268gxKtqtea8UN9gS6MW8CR
lh3OjJr64um21sIKYy+y+Kd6C14E6GGXlBPfyWzXQ6iGWEEtcaN50bkOUxUV
KYxW4+4f0wOlSYk5JxudvgTlnEmmkWG7f+w37eVr2CGy+IGi+hAzy7QmtOYQ
7GjF9eXqjJx+Exs6krqXyJbK2mWPH28mjn+9yKGqRJVURxXPrl2jXr5lj95Y
F0RElosFL2WIiPMrXQtmYk69nBo7uJURehnjNBL4j9WqAssG0nDXFT6RCa6B
pQVLJnxoc26G8T0TNJyUpVtWU5EADiM..vRFlJMyDiDPjzrIN0NLJwx.8lbC
8hyCWxKleEa5frnj6hpYYKJbCknJnp8WbVI248P9hXpPvzbkX37Zlf9M3LAz
HkfvWRQtHLUfcEDLexmKHe6MW35B0thPtIkY0bAycNNWrJb2N0V5KSG5awfp
mi.WmRDnPMIgk1gjWzExnnETXJJKNh5BNBGKLiL3XFk1dLCOqwL5fiYBd6wL
xrFyXCMlQPf1iYzYMlwGPLSqZgPgsGyXSMlcbU3A+bpiijaiIQY3a0dx0QpK
n.ITM7U2tFvnB.DDCLG2VcPjnxMN8xWWnfvLpBYsl0IutlucTElBYz1KUmB+
1TSXJjIbaOj8MphvDHifPsGx3eapGLExn31qFD7MfZvTO1fIcQKHbTzBZ1ct
caNuT+lRKWQuIjHZdy2pscWqaTQn4gymuNbhvbKmUn+vIxWC3DJ4.KDnkbJG
iHHnf2mvD9qB1IHwHgUPFHXBgmEvTc501GFbz2Yy1vvnAaedTsyE4.okmbDf
JjeBgoQZFqIUbb24rUAeJb6oc9NqC1rwOR9kJfF8oUBX8R5x.QHnQCE3yaaq
Fr8I5xShoP7E901BCR+F0oooflKoKfF8ay8Jl.ZLDqKfF6aycKlBZT2t.Zhu
M2uXJn4B5BnMqUmNXhz3tzJ0CPZByl0mCDd3fLRkZAZDxfyZmrhFNLCqiE5x
TBzLlMq8xJbnwrxzAzLlMqWaNXdLD.zPVIZ.ftMBYzYsOCMoS104vvj.KhCu
DdrvkgP9n3xvQvyooQ0SWAhw4DDqIfTO3DtYyQ+3NGPpPtd8.SfWxELJCH23
L0Ui.DKiN0JctiaknyESKOmqB4AhJyYgpxagB2dY4uPE4vP04wPy4xPU4yPt
bZvh7ZntbafjLeTboe4o2fEo3fMo4Pio5fko6PMo7fco8PCo9Pio+Pio.QCo
AQyoBQioCgEoDgMoEQaRMhZROhFSQh5SSh5SUh5SWhZSYhpRahxSchJReBqR
ghxSihhBPJJj9hq2n4N4kX++Z+QoDjiNwO5E6n3UO9XX7SNwdeT+g9NpIRmi
dxAruT3t9i9jNmgchCc79TXvZG4jkTJtSvwim7Otr3iZavd+UgmLYTItvEqT
8XkmTBL4vE0KIEZIRDdgUlE8p+hKepkXoTN0i4UQdsyBWnxrfZyHeo7g0Wp7
rdEnU6.eC5H0UxgDFjHXBHi.Xn6bDkFcvVnIsV+7OKQ025.6KnjyWJnbLPkG
w.ABfgkkY+UijYyv+x.SAnVvDM8fo2Zi1JmiAO7oi0iqnlwUL84UwBdKXIuy
BvDN4foYbu3ZE1ktPlwWJ2SfqbsLGInPpZgLNIAkpWzGt9EoEtXpxhhpkz+n
6W6+KMsxNu8QJI+MnLSSzpuW8f6wvSQqR4ARk93bIkK0hGGr+rok+0yff561
o48tN.Uqnsd.lRMi6HTtLwAZ4HLkbpct+6JaOF5hAv5OXLF9CdwwQA2eJ1vW
T1Fr5jgXxcbbu21DyqNaxeE1p8cWR.C6the6S1se3V6WIjq1wIRkRKwtXj..
jehaxgLCIsJOfp7.H5jmgGI+MbbavZ+mbnRpEfGVPFKHKoJqo3tPW2j.Og61
KXLoSm1OdTwXDBP0uLPvL1XFPovLD.5GbVLiwYu3v02+Tm8bVBa5EwFEg0OP
GawDmr6xuWvtS6dxo1Sp0NT5x.RTH5GXBO8tf8wfCpu2UBQPyNEo39AWpIrd
u47Uab9pKwnOmYlVLUaMUZRdy6q2795Muu9xz6qRAZw9Q9qc7NsNHzQJUsVu
mhtVGJ3ZrW0ErDyAtbHimraAFJ0eL04Mgo2keMAnFbLX+vBinD2xnSCHnMHG
e1ibFqFbVcJNbylgE9RNj2D7iaC9Qm83GI9QmvHoVeGUkrxO5ygQxO4QoD9B
ViM..JVnYBQPcj4.QBafzY+ohD6buylq1SyPyFfDfkTg.KXTLkQHTkG7Ke26
kaeqoLaUVsR4BWtRdobbSah7+uN4ue0Wt5iIIoNGBk7bDfKfbNzUDpMu61SG
4Dd1yxZzmKslQtaHm2aDGPbduzlaoUnG8OKNv48wIEC6rRKt9SqxvqCErkHj
KiSe1cfXF19Yg0AqTlh4E8kZmOf7497wJuiq7VmKps5FxZ10ERUSXo.LBSxj
Uqk6bJq2lbsw62zb7U5mVegYmOmpJNsptfQ35wHPMmqUUVHZ04aMu.3jk6sG
gqGaEcFaq0Fxy.7KnCfMgE1EtTje+R1c5qDPmO90l2Y375.YURsr97NIfI37
NUZqrdDpImKObzdq3yOpTtxtI6o7xgoWnTNomobvcYdYhnGaOy9Jl1egNSRa
6p2lnb0eXPAEKoNrlxUeB1EHH.4GZvBBDfwX.Eg3bJeRHbQahzExjMkeK7Op
5D49a67N37VFXoi4+fK67YyY7yCWfWRk6sVPjbk3j7CAftxzi.WcZzPGGf5A
uXUfF3.6dcTgpQANFujwjKZQOawF0sskE2FNRSzjmsM9qev+otWLULdwtzTs
A0hBAeS0TENdpibfyg090ttqD1JHjaGVURQVNKHglZloUOpxlstCQorSRLxU
pJwk6RRCeGJsWhg.NbpYjttEboBmJQ5cutfSHl7EbdOdsq0npFTXwJad+DKJ
L9TuVS9Dke0ZfHRCkeNgTNj7ObWo0ZpP8BY5niHNzkffXAiaV4IXcTo24S53
tljbQlbIWq8258kmTg.p5+6t.LbR.OQVBo.JGykaBvHjWzOg4IBN4AGVxI+r
9TjYqCcErTQqIsbo8ttWognWTsGF+PM7XbnJk2N1cg8XS5AUpXLdOzfFxdfA
tSMd8f+9mbdeJSkCjyHWa3GVlYoPT+DR60zghtEKhOGKhqOdXoblsh3QjmXS
rd0tqIYCn2RF7agi3svQbFGNhq8KDgwMevi4V37a9iR1WsHh0+vBahzKS.IX
pxMrjXP.S61gTV0Z7h12unj6qB4GVblbl1Qzh+Pfznfnu3XVm9ZIGya99eN5
m2+mTEI1yFT8ZBIId.j+luCZ9Jp+OX+pHe0o647NsqT+WNeKO+U1375jjr82
7NGfyu5W4X1T9qC1Ceiy6j23a965ubbxWS9Il6N9en9K+sG8cx7q7CNf23T7
NRdyacd84gzax9i7ywpWkyFP4WN8WR+r+9ESe.cDruORp6DtRzymadODcR0m
0wfoG6jjSSfGvZvijTGFpN2sqvfq1EmPi24W2hSYgMAmdMqMGutE4paNUkqC
hUSxEZ.8t2k4k7G+SudzI0UQ1NtM7yN96+j+VoQSY+FUE.ssqfaQb08BcrxJ
1hIcHUuAthQQaN1Z5hoth0sQUcVFN7AgQWC9Plb740J82Ndq8ND6qB30vcN+
oeqyeQp269sde4MK5Jvv4ZkGBURYU7j3RpmEEKTaYsdAUwN4md.63Jus9pR6
iban671JsZZsioN206LWFEIBL7RHD3VVDrmKg.vSOT4uURKN9AwOph5eIH4D
F4nVJtJH9KNq0tZSUXjB26n6pkUgf3thfXoRXsGkTGBkfoZ27OWj4QvxpMR4
Ve5N4Xn12sRr6njMSBS4Dm4rQtysvOKw109q79R+CePJup5Noo7CWG3gYSN3
o7rhxntyEhqMa8je60Ndwwdq93wAPeITKzmwIKgHAlxbw3Dmy4xZZIKdFrjc
0i6BhkHVTvCOjuQjzS.jTgot+1fHx+lBQLWJNSGuoN7AwmZ+3F6f5rea4Dio
TH2ktHBfiPLJC8bQAtQm1VrrNkSwHZ5gFXmgFlqIG2FDnYxYZhjCWeGU5sDe
V4W0PE1JnBIM3zkwvfyt921pYi53Rz+ekFNrXLpyGWD+4sztaSnBHTMhmB1F
UdjmWk+up93MxkSDZ8ENuN0FFU0dLH9jzx4WCVpTu.W9lb1JeYrmOvBta8Hr
ChyaekAxbtvBkn8hVvBoMIteVW83SJ1JYv4OKMyMXuypSQp9lTiZPuBixLkW
XoQY7hgyfqnQqxldSZ8t+X3VkHwJ5TW8igFp5jjVmBdIAQf.DWfU0kRz4lzU
slZL8dtnj7vps9lfk5ARfKhg.BhKC3pR4zjhVSc8WKvjC.IIKkT1Uj+tvO46
7+72M.rIRYSFmR.TYtH2jxhl.opVFjIOlBNs+fRh+lbo.dMwfQ6K3XIPSoAN
Emqulsg0YiwnAZxaXT0Ya6iQ9Ge7IGU.TQG1pnWYQWEDyVR6gv5.Bbm5x6Vw
75raEmLzkRzpvpu1BQXfU8.gFxW1w27ueu+d+HOoN0Dms4c1cadO6vsO4s8j
zdPsKk7W6b+WbPKo6N9lmcuTvd4CQ4QNMQs7m2+y6eug424cI2tgb2cR4Gpe
YkuxYJ6Wqp546khoiOEs24de0YRbu+lvHe4eo94RLFR8kevKX+qkOi6bjD2a
j+9oNo4cpxjte58kP.q7T+dEue0Qy5HG3x6V42P0g15ue8wBD+q0a45M4743
qe9c26G+Ye4nVZdrhBT1GK+8zViH+AKyHkDJ6yOFr5Q4mm5EIokea2leTpFe
q+WU+dIJwdmDZOHIxj+44BKQRp.6bHTtEV8s8G9aUalNeXLSOwoUksrhZh4S
8Q1WoXk4rnayluS3gSY0LylIyEE87bdfkcM.K0T6iPpNcpbm5jyg.Jp06V+N
K14dmJdmrQJvZMAyiWzCpZ6gY5PqNcoSxZNoImNmEFPjuOY9QE1xlk450yKx
IF97owBKIySGFyhRlTyavnb2ssXBsRsOvWXsFXmw1iBDnw8wDjXonXEcl2rG
jmwRpjZbF3xfsRNjfKXLjzRPiux38R7B61a8fyyOgKCkkmg5xBQjL.tEYHbU
YGLLefgT6DdqGEj4vnfXKVvuHfZVnKWS1uhXvFZL2pGZ3IdnIpdnAl1glpN0
muzH77PiLsCMXMnFZXFZXKGZkPC6BVqMWOQ5DF.Mg.jT6CWUrDfHBPJpUuqT
WVEWaLYQPj1PrvARxCB0lQAZnj+wsU9Gczk+Y6PiAGcgL71HjYbWIa6Pifrb
kLAAtz1RlXI7hLJ8xu3npTxZYX7wlUFiZyPanVqiZE.MTx8zdc0tgw.Z2Gz1
YDzkJ7rea1EVPwMGUIGxVx4Ln.6Z9ipn5fX5EakbsgBAbuv9mJP.PcHP+Tef
5W9bP6Xvd4PXPa0HNjKfUGMkULNlU5ngbX.rdXLXngv1kQPK02xk5VoEBNWS
hvU8UnJwFPj.4REm6.3l.r6xKMp1ZaK7nMGA1Q3AKVhU+gJ3LBiHTKVs86Iu
zRtb0LFwY3ziyUUaGtz9lK+lioQDHa29nPLjtswZgqvFjtd80Su9kvfVxo1i
FD3xL8DVHWEP4YieQJET5UFJh258ZU+jJfQkV96p1QOhf04BFE.4tRElBJmv
3biVTl.iP.HwUUFPZFlzXgPkTvEBatDqlt7RC01kaiUiCkJGhslA35NjdNEY
45EFeHGE1ZE.AOfiBpsVDgZqriAa3ZkOelGiVPqLzaT81h8iM9X6iJqGZbxX
6NDl0Ncbz8rm8CMzXiZ7oviE.VEdkXB7XA2V8d7gTVO2VOGg4CmsRCCkg6Nu
+7lxrcSnP2gyiPUuHStub8F0Y7kXlDTj204RXFFqSYjRt1.BUVIkg0eRYR1r
Cgq64VB.MQRhhOQR0lHb4xKNfH.11M3BGalEFSWHEQpiPMeLzwI0dAH2j.HX
54+0.BfHaMIe7APjPeFzP5RA5blUpNR5he5.BODaN6vYg02BQO4YfwY351FU
Xvoe3Z8YgwpzjlmiQLcsiqhfD6b.xsy6WX4poaoU7vxGxp3wSiLeHXupFU5W
MBkgHxUYffIei6R4Zy61TuUq72GmC8EpukzfRDjodGG3JT9Crv7vcYfcU.XV
VoyawNIkEjc+BkMskCbJjSF0CO4F1p1XHRatCVJKhnemT5DENVC8c9GO5ksz
qLLysaB1t8LgWRAoZQZnRt3gHu0AE5BpFLCddtV6l86J8cvhEMS8shRuUod.
IheWouq7aM8NQt.nql2Bmvaodm7ifkbmd6eHo7ZxKT2GODEdHL5bsHcozV2r
22o3vy.PtR5V1xgU0rBWtRs8bDEyq7VvMqm+IR1XfVOKQhSX2wfSN16fsC3r
g9qTR4O4EG57SppR5h9XLl7aj9CzTqoIYbUY0.srJAZCshlhsgFCii9UCDpe
lYB1ZyXHePVuYa39S6R9IKOz+UkQXU9amq1lVZ.mmXDoNUZoWTJDSyCbsWPN
+6TZT+mqkDjKUaSyaC0rkDPh8i9fo3rlIb4ky7Q67hyjRJkDL0sDmxEL5OGH
5+5mTprJG9fUiTl1aAVnwHxkHUSAUdNHgsnLhD0qDIrijnxOPkVWLaGIR6MR
z+us1a0SkSMflnFUEpWMgQSeszAKYnmOVsMX0Gep8yHTS.1Z35vtW2TBdw.u
z5Pv9tPjDcQFDRLUTTw0QjnAmHcVEdHve8eIoCN+icdV0H0sj9ic6nXX4Tb1
m+ykw9TkZUT95Kqz0mpetjRVeIkq9xKU80Wl5KqD0eVMeYkl9LlQkojziIlR
ytdEuKMouu6lw9uRKG8MTJ5apLzWaIn2hxOeEkd9lK670Tx4qsbyWaolulxL
e8kX9ZKu7MTZ4aprxaaIkuhxIeskR9pKi7UWB4qt7w2NiEunjwWR4huwRE+k
kI99LqHgcuDoBL8DBSE8xTA3qqjrvl9RxxauZpkin1Qszwo.qbTpqptVVVCT
E0jyoLCwAM1DBqq3iQGolq0oc26G8z.UZXRHarnrxdLqG5dOxKdQamnp1aPN
zsS0hfrXwtj9Y.ZjVRA5LumvThkIFyirXEEcFH+.cMzqYS3XTZZd2.8NNEK5
gckFGKloqzPywUZWJN2Tat0.gh6KwKu0TbH.VMgPjVZdYcZxBw+SdKtSxBrV
427qpW.hS5mUZBVbscVYBdhz022LGI5E6JywH0pHqSB8+1QUsbxINYu6Nu9n
2dyGorqVUwhB1u9zJUQc5X7oMadiywvc9pJe4CNaC9npT6Db7GqrrfPZeYA4
O3u8SxskrxqIaRnYbjE1Tb2gHVMMY.XEyBfpjrgASeUXIxeqo74DdEUFRSIr
gHsZkKYRQjDEJrFsg.O81P7L.rYSmQ.nIV9tDADMh.rQzpB6LpH6YYzTYS1D
3QHQdxlBru5EUaqUFyyuJsxyy3kH5A4CM5IlEnWCEu2qV7CgfJU7Cm1zhOzr
n5EWp3mrdG8C8TsokgJUHkIv1pUHE3ErPJBkLvKyfeEKjByGZziLKPuqsABf
y5Nxl6Y.HQqaZ.SZAgUN9NtMXk+V+8OD+nyqCN9X2alWXAzzqtA44ofPXiRr
eIatz4dTNXfVKkuyjOcRhZtzW+VUY37sP.XfJQgJnVYSfbKHWryY.tWpRgcq
N0hGGb9sCVsezHniJguK.VHoepq3zN4JvQRR3O1ccDFwdHIqYdwdMtM4YPeJ
TtMYozjCqC+b2MTOsrgBKX+YiaRFBmKz+oCWgIB5Y+hTOqwCdXjZFWMrKkxl
8GfMoPLt77BXRz3lTff4BLcELIXWd4bIMJiXb1J6U1vEvYbyeO0hE3stCKLo
FR+XvCOppC4pR1e24RXZMstlpZDuwH8XTXMxElzsvl4k.qNanj9YRussy1Xo
7EAK8KR+fjzmjoC0N4Qnuh8CBALznG4qYWcCXCK5g+Zl2KI0.FNVO7b2sAG2
Fr1+IGpJHCvC6Na0NooXnwvc6EWFP3yXWFjfwHDfpeYX8LSovrtu.0G3rXFi
ydwgqu+oq0F5K7h.g0OPGapaDgGR5jRWKBkDgLt8zR2ZBzphCG+JSr2JxBjp
xDjB2dYYDREYER0YFRyYGRUYHRgjAswLEoP1h3Zx8QDSeDITSzFhozhoKbYo
LhEoMhMoNRioOhkoPRMoQhcoRRCoSRioTRioURCoVRyoWRioXhEoYhMoZRaR
2jZR4jFS6j5S8j5S+j5SAkZSCkpREkxSGkJRIEqRKkxSMkhRPJJe9hq2nqLx
KrVJPK1zHE08wQoT0he0pbKX8d8nRWHajl6pJQD.WNjwSanBnxZVW04jrZTv
kuFCjSQ2PCnkz9OG.XzjqtPcZQZBdulPN9rG4R5uelNf4vBePy9ARvOtM3Gc
1iej3GczkfQm6OEKWT+4vH4mj5uxgEPUQDfZcMTeFIPjvFHEM4P5EVwV3vtc
t2YyhZwFjELajjDqUU+1vBFESYDBECqZaokaeq1C.klyF0FQNyRfUZCnzfn0
O22aqGjgVHPz3fJnjmi.bApJQj.qJ2+hRSXbKSJgZ8R0rDYM5ykVyH2Mjy6M
hCHNuWZy8AU6R8r3.m2eNj9yHs3pmFR30gB1R4FbYb5ycLILCa+rv5fUJSw7
h9RsyGP9be9Xk2wUdqykkIcCYM65BoJoET.VtEYACiLMa1J75h0aSt132nl.
0X.Q0hGS4UgY0bZkcFiv0iQEUY1PChuhixb1CvIK2aOBWO1J5L1VqMjmA3wf
C9h3QsaFVkvB6BWJxueoZP6pxcoZCU0Kfxl2YnULr4cYxEcw2Kg4xJgjk.1W
1Outndgltw9xJmjf7kSxVwHz4QHuEiP3E8TgjYndtAcMJT9k8+u5n7xgoWnT
Nomo7pKLqiG8.sjdpXZ+E5LIssqdahxu9F.03P3hVP3UvuOFS4YtX1S4nopV
Ywi3oSdBt9pXYAmEWZYPcPOQtjsau9TjY9pyo4uIAHXxsZ3Jmsb4tmqx51dL
cUGDCfo9fKeve+SNuOEjTgp.3ZOCSFGsjKXTF.btkF.Qj94DMsJCj9l+.MWe
7vR4LaEGpI233Rii3bSphEDvsyz71YZd6LMmsmo4Z+BgoPyduH2BmeyeTx9p
EQr9GVXywEY7poIQeXINxDS6lmNpZMdMA8cCgAkMarecR0SI3XbXzWbLqSes
ji4Me+OG8y6+SpfF7rABulPRbpn727cPyWQ8+A6WE4qbQfy6z1i8ub9Vd9qr
w40lecmey6jlB9q9UNqdTUWcdcvd3abdm7FeyeW+kiS9ZxOwb2w+C0e4u8nu
SlekevA7Fmh2QxadqyqOOjdS1ejeNV8pb1.J+xo+R5m82uX58JbvdG3067sD
tRT4Ue5N57MX89da5wNI4zD3ArF7j6uPid7JQuJL3pcG1v34DrVrUM1D3BLV
a7QWiiu7vp+5fX0jbtduhb2l2k4k76grW2+UCIenj59jui+9O4uUZ3TkEDqN
m2cIEiFrZyEWTX.cMkO6ZpzXz4Pt2EtUtw7ADiHlhDYWwnoOIdUaBQI+KNzw
6SgAqc1r0S9sW63EG6s5iG6eHCaJLVJadfHAlxbw3j8w5xJKHOxcPN34CW09
v.oYEa1FFFM.nDxbNXLwRBRZ5DhKvH.Ve5rrFgIDcwbopNfANuEAF1DznrZ5
fa+j2.5Nf7zl3.0wL9IIq3Nem0Aa13q5CORH6GuRlw1m9FlpoDExVxJLIjTD
mqiSsKn6HwCKWoOv0LCUTCJ3BFCI4yLcmTduv1551W35y85fKLxr6MoOns8K
c5n2jugLa6+3IGm5fLJt7POpZTvFxQArMiBz.MJHh1LJF0lUuV6f8bKCUOuD
aMBoGuCF6BuUCiAieocCiQkgw5wFsFdY3ztLihF8glsxjI7wdngvsYnMXq7P
sYTLXK7rdZRL1Z0Qn1LzFJ.BQZyn.N0xGInwdZxdYPvQenY6Bc7.pn2V9GjX
.GDPas4AAFvQQ5OdybwCITPa2fX7zKY8Zb3PZWZaFDCl3Na2DSZmi+Vao+Va
o+R34Vaourf85Vao+U2ZK82ZK8yj1Re+14qI.U0ES0uib6gVeMava809qevu
BpDYAUZ5mSDTyTYZdSmqBpUZo7evn0MaOErdo2tC5Rv+SNuOaQDUEmwNuOSe
TQcBbY+fMazmK26KTB+yDdxsG+RZP5Tj8Ms96xD3P4fO3v2.wOtWJf3eWBfs
dYAkCWZpQ2lVSG7pVVPt05viKZLBiX5wcBvs9F9s9F9s9Fd2N85rpCqVjdkR
4RRFXT4JEaghwKBgGzzWNAO18DVJAXdtDI0CmVecMSqaIdiMURvjdsjoFLIn
lBCN7VR2bKoatkzMy0jtoo5bS1csdE4zfvHSvnHC1qk0l4ewa5W+jCbI4pAQ
dRkYEVs0.cGDASdsApAP73m17jbed.0BSZ8XIwBrDljrtZQ2BbqAy6p8c0Vd
7puXWhmA7qRL95yiIBguj555xY.yePpj8OopLRsGvatv3wl67t+y5Z40.gnl
1oKgzmHJDN2gzHu8qC2oz+OPvpwEZ7VvnFruAPEM2A0estjcb8K8wXc1k.ST
U41qrl34+pcvRduggFalvhdECoeCs7NEHQ7deAMetCixMs+QUFRBkFf57VIa
oCPc.Cl22WHKBjT0k6qbUFUuwnrYP4+7TzmZp3ehrG.MlCQ3cwJzKbyWkGjy
W41aJMwBXziScM+QERC3AvdSN+EfAm3dvfyxgT1.XvIW7MjFoxgUXuavI28a
ECNEBc1OBICfAmbxKfU6K6OLjO.FbxeoXvItGVdmBjvd2fSN6EhAmR6MOatI
0XtIi0a.qqwaxTdOYuIi7Mh8lI.XhWOGH6MYzYu8lW+AZj5+XSMCCJbM3ZO4
Md1r2GG5xtQuAioGLDqWOSC17+fgTl+b8ZtQDjIX3La1oMGMTyptQhWBFQ1C
aejoKzRCxFFQuD1vHsO1vXBHxf8+VDQeK4zxTfDh6aaHQu.NsLwx9SlHyTI.
g8JqH9aHVwyH4.vKRdQreFLhAk6jA3Pf.GpZyLT8BTmDOoS6oP6.5ZhCAHou
bjd8V.4NGVqiQPPegeIpcD83Q739BYkNDzanHt2WmCmdaHUcCuv8Wud4j1is
gEij9pks4wZwH1kUr5Huc9w9QevD3hkUBbmgsVydhMj4lAhQ8CDSl+QJXOgd
Hgw4Nbd+1BAm8gInwSYNBvU6rrDfzrSPFYP7UlXt6prUeY0V+dioz3sLBsW4
Im9sE1S8Dvj36UPZnqKZeqVtl1.3WAcoRtwZYZaaRkMqmny8ox4cqTrMM7K5
DTE44tsX.x4SwHrMPn5XkbHi8HrMMiRtXJvv1zr.3joXDRa6r7nOBaS6mjOE
qkYsBCw4K8TiyHrMXHaRvPba5PiSQquk0lF.Kxcl2YRfvIX.1p1O5TLG2pl7
6jvEhAsgKbBFfnjJsr8BCG8QXaLrAMIiv1XXCZJDWiZirFzTX9JpMBazUqW1
XOBaiRYzTX9JB2VLjO1iv1HvdRfPXa04M11FhZkFkovrAnaaYCG8QXaTo.mB
aCgsQkBbJT5Aak4qSwNQgsRkxTXcHrU6Ut7kUWVVymgCcV8Cc37cnWwVLNOz
4y2gNpATmNiG5j5G5j46PuBcKmG5rY7PmW+PGOiG5MrLEMtC81XHNbJ1PHDM
yaauPXaUdO1GmADL2c9DresPKWaLNSYGrghgcgQZ2JWY0WbrMAFP9BjcdBXt
zHHqrfQhLgwQ4A2e6KXjtScMzb0id6qs9hZGpX5xszdBUXSMp7CO4jOlb6Bn
.ElbjqmpsnU2wjQiT4V8QuigQWKqBzjRGTT+fJjoFUTx6u1xyqpzdoKFssBS
Zr.8xGEroXj3zElBBn5Hvog.VOGEKpjhy1qbqHbaJITa5A34hH6pc8O7D7Ag
qAfxVF5sqBD2IDXP5fvXa6mRXzbnwqh4C4nv1l8EdH6EZXa69i3grOaYciSF
Oj8oOr0MKP1PNJrsoWhGxF0G15F0GnlNe1WE8mm7csqmsE.pZnU5ZyS26FIT
sjdFs4tQRo8gDb48gDTe1yUTkW8i+6pBfcqaEQBSc2vzxUXWWmH5bp+8MeKW
wzXmf.xsttxsttxsttxMWEcyUQeS6pHzMWEUBp.u4pnNz3h9J0UQ03njW1tJ
BaJAVV3pH3KLWEQ.yhsA6NK5H6yCmzflEtGANKbgn0bmvatGoyNNvTWd6r2Q
NW4pFPuiD0klQKlCy3XjKqhgsqWzht4XjaNF4liQt4XjaNF4liQt4XjaNF4l
iQt4XjaNF4liQt4XjaNF4liQlcNFQuONU4SGX51IfN6+.RxFd6b3iP6OGjbZ
289QkSIIZzUNKHX2oc5rbqFhKw7OcgnjdQKBT8XS+UTNWpRBtnx9Raox0UyT
KwN5VBJwgO7vV+VO8hbceFAtrlwVe4zsz1HvvRlU3bL4yKJLScFt0.fwweLb
yb2UOQ2eb30sbdoCUtVF0YJEBX1FhTkRlvA2SmYMZuhk20PdlJr8kVqask5k
1PeGLh8W+T6mHIHSqlJso7QuBW5B6uv5K02Qo+feJv+yZe6ErMH9KYIpvMaN
5mPMuUOS8VblwuwuoqijJFO6OrTIHq1Fr5iwOFEd5gGy94W3Zs7W3SWdg6eP
4J3bexyoReqmSLgQuYQET+WB2LjjWzCI1ju38xG6IknZ4SQ9uTdGWyCFc53i
9GW5ErQ8Oe+1vvClpKhsypmMsXs+tPo0R6WuTN+HGrKJQcboy5fNLqqLR5TP
6CKUAcIhp5CKIdaFzF4QpGZpSCUGKx5vOuuLprhyqXBHSSC26JIySGJiHwyE
hjBfWIQJWX6e7Qo3gxnSxrYxzTceud5rTdV1zSlPyzI6pHyGCd3wCxgxlH++
qxnS9bgNY3qhsUN3OJkgueku7kGherDZkNalSY.70RqREv0PoS9rJmKz46vU
pXIxeaMJVntyFx75TrjPlkpXgAlKD4UpXQRj0oXgAmMSlWmhkmoyx3YYMaLj
9mLuCjMTcQWykP6MT+rsntYeA9Z6SRfs8IkwB5bUJqQ3QCt7QCutGsqEOZAq
GvWlMDoFIvW4Sha8SBcs7L.aeRvq8Iwr8Ic0qCPV7jHt8vShaEuGnOdRTaVf
4V9BLzv+nyWiP6KwJ1Q0vgPrR9VGQc0vO3nL0xJmHwW0il.s4QS6A927Eutg
7IQPi0SBOVOH3nMMwfsXs908jPi0Sh5NZzDXznI9n8jXi0SBOZzDd7nIxn8j
vi1SZzV4hrRZjnOLuxJIr8gwoHaz1C6isqvsYdB1KySVsxsWLiv01mz0ZUFx
F6+X8AGA1FNBBpOdR1vkS5ENBqjv1GN8.ZySB1GySPrsqmxy6Y7fTgL6Q8PJ
jQOExlmKyjmpyhmhYviN1sLYyPAuV8bRvbZcP3eVmJJe3O5u+jwQXoILSdn3
9G1Drc6pvsgWjHSodeag4pmSZnzu6e0ArD4RfPgD6VhgXNhoem7MTZFOQkbO
vzahPIt.j5qRXHNgpem.goX06.EtMzyOK.z07D.tB.w7N4GAUwIRlaya+CIo
dCOS9ibHJ7PXz4bPZI1872+Tb3CQdqCRBCUPtHS6tDNoH4UKlDIK1IAzfz6I
Km24Iie5zJu5l.xAmDNEh03AxEKbMuiBAL2bj3B+s9pXlM28xELFWeGB.THL
uiPAHT96Ma9RI4r++bveuye1a+Qm+r+tf6C2t9YWsdT9bVoPr7OHjb7nmygL
NxLmI..HI+yQEyG566CA6UKO7OOOhcQPlgzRYDPbAAmedzJVyySaUvcZIGSd
9SwYtRAGPEBy6tX.Vj+jQAFXgo9C27NyuzfvddFlxQyt.Bj6pGxtTBmaXCPt
FVCJ6Y+nuZUQVHrZBQCRjTZQsVljx80KKH93wsARIZ++Th6rbgg43Px9ROMV
148KryY7X4CiJYiA2k4k77sUOzky.0MAXX0Nu9fmv01uDbljjvFQRR4xH2rr
BpUqDJruGV4hBv9atnqxPxHMHc07kuqFoAbgRi1ck9tKusYoNt7qNraVLaJl
XA2kdNKi8.RZF2qRaLwg3+51S9o8R5xGUkIMDxYDiX7yCPW0GAGfAXT3m225
Q3yiK540l3AZD969hW6Gf.jTGjQTFGiQl0NHHDh6+A3uOx2uCiPM5gU+wXQi
R4e+O39+6uca3mqezkMK3+q57fm5B.hZ0WHMNjajr.EPs7OpDwo8JAny+feu
zvvVCtJVQfd5mJUoQ0iTXVoY8x.LxXPgZDZsbGFgwvtIri7Dqjj.mKtFc4iE
A8L8TOhWvtONDnGPtXBC3lX2GGlWeyzMME6cnIt+LaK4m7hCc9IUsMXQWd9l
MlWQ8s369Ge2+MVlwgFA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

I also included some trickier bits of test code from the previous thread as it would be good to see how fluid.ampslice~ fares with stuff like that, but as it stands, I can’t get it to respond to brushes.aif at all…

[tremblap]

Hello

So I’ve explored your patch a bit. You can get pretty similar results when you give all parameter similar value…

[fluid.ampslice~ @highpassfreq 110 @absthreshon -70 @absthreshoff -70 @minslicelength 1764 @relthreshon 15 @relthreshoff 10 @absrampup 2205 @absrampdown 2205 @relrampup 5 @relrampdown 1103]

but not 100% similar. I will investigate further.

[rodrigo.constanzo]

Oooooh, I see. Man, that’s really confusing.

The @relrampup and @relrampdown = the “fast” envelope.
The @absrampup and @absrampdown = the “slow” envelope.

The @relthreshon and @relthreshoff = the “thresh~” of the differential between the relative and absolute envelopes.

And the @absthreshon and @absthreshoff have nothing to do with the @absrampup and @absrampdown really, and more refer to an absolute cuttoff floor when the detection will not fire?

I wouldn’t have gotten that from the helpfile in a million years…

It would be super useful to include a vanilla Max version of it in the helpfile to show what’s what, with some scope~s in there to show how to tweak settings and such.

Lastly, these settings for fluid.ampslice~ don’t work at all with any of the other examples at the top of the patch.

[tremblap]

it’s interesting you don’t get the helpfiles. Have you read all of it from the top? It answers explicitly all of the questions you still have, with examples, visual and auditory…

@rodrigo.constanzo

don’t work at all with any of the other examples

yes, these are artificial (digital silence to spikes) so we will investigate eventually. Something to do with how smoothing happens. It’s already on the radar of @groma

[rodrigo.constanzo]

The helpfile is pretty short, so I read through it several times, and the same with the reference file.

This is what the @relrampup reference file says:

The number of samples the relative envelope follower will take to reach the next value when raising. Typically, this will be faster than absRampUp.

I don’t know what that means (in terms of what it does in the object). The “this will be faster” helped me deduce that this is likely the “fast” envelope, otherwise I wouldn’t have known which was which.

Without knowing the topology, or how the different components interact, the (thousands of!) parameters don’t make much sense.

Three of the tabs use slow sine waves to show what’s going on, with several of the settings (steps 4/5 on the first tab for example) make buzzing noises while they are engaged (10ms crosstalk).

(I think this may be a typo in the help file. Should there be a reset in every message? This sets everything to default states instead of the @instantiation values. So the message reset, minslicelength 441 clears everything and sets only that one parameter)

The one real-world example has two examples, with wildly different values for the abs and rel versions of the thresh-es, so I don’t really know what makes the big difference between the two.

@tremblap

yes, these are artificial (digital silence to spikes) so we will investigate eventually. Something to do with how smoothing happens.

Interesting. Surprisingly that it would fail to find something at all since the changes in dynamics still happen, just more pronounced.

[rodrigo.constanzo]

I revisited this today on “real” audio to see if I can get better-than-the-vanilla-Max-version performance with fluid.ampslice~.

With the settings above, I can get pretty much the same behavior, although as mentioned above, it no longer works on synthetic signals, but I can’t get it to track anything <100ms.

I’ve massaged around a bunch of the variables I think should impact things, but without any feedback (visual or otherwise), I’m just guessing at random numbers.

Attached is one of the audio files I’m testing with. (the non-mp3 version wouldn’t upload due to size)

@rodrigo.constanzo

(I think this may be a typo in the help file. Should there be a reset in every message? This sets everything to default states instead of the @instantiation values. So the message reset, minslicelength 441 clears everything and sets only that one parameter)

Also, just checking back on this to see if this is a bug in the code, or a typo in the helpfiles, because the behavior seems unintended.

sped up rolls.mp3.zip (624.8 KB)

[weefuzzy]

@rodrigo.constanzo

(I think this may be a typo in the help file. Should there be a reset in every message? This sets everything to default states instead of the @instantiation values. So the message reset, minslicelength 441 clears everything and sets only that one parameter)

Also, just checking back on this to see if this is a bug in the code, or a typo in the helpfiles, because the behavior seems unintended.

I don’t think that’s what I’m seeing here. Does this not work for you? :

----------begin_max5_patcher----------
541.3ocyVEriZCCD8bxWgkOmhhcBPROwOP+BpppLICf2lXmZ6PY0pse60wNQ
.KYYoKKn8RPyKimYduYFGdJL.uTtCzXzWQeGED7TXPfCpCHn2N.Wy1UTwzN2
vEx5ZPXvQ92YfcFGtdirspDo.MXPFIZAxFGzVVUqM98NWwEPgrU3NAsGTzVy
EUfwEdxdPYqY.MtGkW5Rkb4CegjNDzFloXCWr9mJnv3YBY17IwQnbR2Sxz3t
eRRlDi9Q+YzlGq.Wrvc.OGF18H5Jkfuw9EfzxZ.UxWsBTVetgB.8LBPRZdGm
SytMBPMn0r0vIBfq4iGiVzQoE4TZkct1JIaeaMw0hozCHkOxlGa.u+X7Mlua
3q2zXcZkB9sUys0CaoVwpaZarbCY4uthW.UfXsYCJI95jljyHMynt9sqqSmm
e+jFA7GaschxrppkWNwpDNA3unEGHLInEGIbDZLZwKzpzTB9xWOnird71yQT
heIId5aKWZ9ZAqBG8wIbLiQ0xGpxNKO7fN8eP+QlUN2siT+8AD5zCtc39Ls7
Jj93l+0w77Kf4S+zv7CWDtNdShu.hm8wQb2qceP6E+8AW56vOVMzxVUwPvGJ
Xz9BnDzFtfY3RwgN48YTA+RST9cJOI2o7jdmxS16JO94BVSyVPo6c1kB69vC
R2T+7HmIW3MSblJXKev+TGBSYGiM1Y3Vke7aW1Lr+nxRPIrqScqBgcY94v+A
XiChK.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

[rodrigo.constanzo]

Ok, that is working.

It was a bit since I was messing with that part (of my original post), but since it appears to be working, I find the first tab of the fluid.ampslice~ helpfile kind of confusing. (buttons 4/5 just make synth sounds).

I’m not sure how what’s being shown in the first tab is useful, or at minimum, the most useful thing to show on the opening tab of a help file.

(and I guess because of dyslexia, I had to look at 4/5 for a solid minute to realize that they weren’t saying the same thing…)

[weefuzzy]

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I’m unsure about how informative that bit is as well, and am going to prepare some diagrams to share between help file and KE web site. My instinct is that the musical example, slimmed down somewhat, might be a better thing to open with. And yes, minslicelength and minsilencelength are a bit hard to distinguish.

[rodrigo.constanzo]

Getting a bit OT but in general the first tab should always be a musical example, with the didactic stuff coming later on.

[rodrigo.constanzo]

@weefuzzy

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I’m unsure about how informative that bit is as well, and am going to prepare some diagrams to share between help file and KE web site. My instinct is that the musical example, slimmed down somewhat, might be a better thing to open with.

Oh, as a follow up that I was reminded about in thinking about the other thread on extracting amplitude information from fluid.ampslice~ is that something that would be super useful in the helpfile would be a vanilla Max implementation of the core algorithm, to help adjust thresholds visually.

Like, this is invaluable for finding the right settings for everything:

[rodrigo.constanzo]

@tremblap

yes, these are artificial (digital silence to spikes) so we will investigate eventually. Something to do with how smoothing happens. It’s already on the radar of @groma

Has this moved forward at all?

Or any clearer info/explanation/diagrams (from @weefuzzy or @tremblap).

I’m still using the oldschool abstraction version since this isn’t a drop-in replacement (due to not working on digital silence) and I still can’t really make sense of all the parameters and how they interact.

[tremblap]

soon, on the todo list. Toolbox 2 and KE for TB1 are priority and keep us busy quite a lot…

[rodrigo.constanzo]

I finally started using fluid.ampslice~, though it is in one of my auxiliary patches tied to some pitch analysis. I wanted to try to at least implement it somewhere to help me understand some of the parameters a bit better.

It works in this context as what I’m feeding it has super sharp transients, and it’s only a cog in a system of pitch tracking -> coll storage for later use, but tweaking the parameters still feels like shooting in the dark. I’m kind of poking at random when I change settings as to what kind of impact it’s having, and many settings that seem to work fine produce zipper noises in other places, so it’s still too much of a gamble to incorporate into my main patch/dsp stuff.

I’m imagining there will be no (significant) updates to this in terms of how it responds with “synthetic” material (i.e. where silence is computed from) and/or getting some general KE/diagram/clarification stuff before TB2/“the concert”, is that correct?

It’s a shame as this is one of the objects/ideas that I saw myself implementing immediately across all my patches (, particularly if tightly couple-able with fluid.loudness~ to get immediate loudness data).

edit:

[tremblap]

@rodrigo.constanzo

I’m imagining there will be no (significant) updates

It is on the priority improvement list, which is the 3rd list on the meta list after toolbox2-metalpha and toolbox1-RC

[saguaro]

I’m using it with synthetic material (pulsar stuffs) which is even giving me interesting results when some of the individual pulsars are not even audible. But I’m on the ‘I’ll use it for what it gives me’ side of things, so not very helpful for this thread, I’m afraid. Put me in the OG camp. But you knew that…

[jamesbradbury]

What will happen when it is fixed?! My guess is that the weird behaviour on quiet stuff is the object’s inability to deal with digital silencio.

[tremblap]

@jamesbradbury

What will happen when it is fixed ?

That is an interesting question. @groma and @weefuzzy might have different answers to the suggestion that there is a @vintage attribute

[rodrigo.constanzo]

Would a @vintage flag just mean “does not work with digital silence?”

I’m mainly interested in having a better way to understand and set parameters, since that’s the most apparent problem for me. If I set the Max-land version and the fluid. version to the same parameters, I don’t get the same results (due to digital silence), which is where I’m stuck on trying to understand things since I can monitor thresholds and such in Max-land more easily.

So I’m curious how this will be handled/possible (like if you will show the internal signals via an output(s) or if you will have a Max-land patch next to it which shows the same numbers so you can tweak your settings). A tricky interface problem to solve.

[rodrigo.constanzo]

Using FluCoMa tools with reaper

@jacob.hart has very kindly shared his code with me, and I’m going to try and make it a bit faster; with his agreement, we’ll probably include it in the main distro. However, this is Max: I still need to harness enough SC gui-fu to assemble something that would be useful to @spluta. @rodrigo.constanzo is quite right that being able to see the feature curves themselves would help massively with this, partly because thresholds and curve shapes are so different for various metrics. In my mind, th…

A little bit of a comment off this post here, since it’s relevant here.

I can only assume (hope!) that something similar is planned for this object, as among all of them it’s still the most obtuse to tweak for me.

As a point of comparison, yesterday I was tweaking some thresholds in my performance patch since I’m using a different bass drum for the trigger here for rehearsals, and being able to see all of this was invaluable:

I shudder to think how long it would have taken me to find the appropriate setting changes in fluid.ampslice~. I literally would have been turning knobs randomly hoping for it to work better.